Does Vegeta Always Lose? Vegeta vs Silver Surfer (Marvel Comics) – Battles

sirfizzwhizz

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#1 Edited By emperorthanos-
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Current Vegeta vs Standard 616 Surfer? I’d like to understand your reasoning behind this match being fair because I know both characters better than most and this is a heavy mismatch that I’m tempted to lock.

#2TheWatcherKing
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Vegeta destroys, I’m assuming it’s not the pictured version of Vegeta who stomps even harder than canon Vegeta.

#3Killmonger101

Congrats, Vegeta is against the one character more likely to job than him.

#4MasterBuster666

#6MaulSmacker

#7takenstew22
 Moderator

#8 Edited By sirfizzwhizz

I think both your scaling and views are bullshit 🙂 I will see where votes are though and I maybe the minority. If Votes stay so one sided, then next match I have to GREATLY amp the competition regardless my personnel views. I still need a area to start though.

Still, if you want to lock a Does they Always Win/Lose because your views, and not the votes say so, be the first mod ever Highpower/Taken. Go ahead.

#9Rapiu

Vegeta doesn’t always lose but he does lose against a whole lot of Marvel characters.

#10sirfizzwhizz

Well how about a Silver Surfer?

#11Rapiu

@sirfizzwhizz: Yes. Make it actual composite Vegeta, including Xenoverse and Heroes and such. Either that or we can use the Arale scaling which people have been talking about lately.

#12sirfizzwhizz

Hold On! So I understand, you feel Vegeta loses unless he is the super powerful Xenoverse version? @emperorthanos-: @takenstew22: See that guys? This guy here needs to be educated why this is a clear mismatch by you and others. Lets gets some debate and feats slung in here. Unless this is some alt account, only been around week and a half, which is sus……

#13Rapiu

@sirfizzwhizz: How strong do you personally think both of these characters are?

#14Rapiu

Also super powerful is totally subjective. Yujiro Hanma is super powerful because he can stop an earthquake with a punch, Saitama is super powerful because he can sneeze away Jupiter, Kid Buu is super powerful because he can destroy the universe in an instant, and compared to something insane like Azathoth or the Leviathan (Hellraiser) those feats are really small. What’s powerful or not depends on the verse.

#15 Edited By emperorthanos-
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@sirfizzwhizz:

I asked you I dont care about others. Im not here to debate every other person. What scaling do you think is BS with anime feats?

I want you to put it in words where you think current Vegeta is for this to be fair. Because unless you ignore feats we see in the anime and assume Vegeta scales to literally no one i.e Frieza, Cell or even Buu. Then this doesnt make sense.

I haven’t locked it yet because I wanted to see your justification but the fact is you can’t say why. We all know your disdain for DB and you heavy agenda against it. So I dont really care what type of thread this is. Just because its a can x always lose doesnt suddenly make it exempt from the rules. Knowing you and DB this could be an intentional bait thread.

Silrver Surfer consistently operates at planet to maybe large planet busting. And if you really want you can push it to star busting with high ends. Which with anime feats DB you have surprassed that by Buu Saga. So again I ask hoping to get an actual answer. Where do you place these characters? Dont hide behind some new account.

#16Rapiu

Star busting high ends oh my goodness.

#17 Edited By sirfizzwhizz

@emperorthanos-:

I asked you I dont care about others. Im not here to debate every other person. What scaling do you think is BS with anime feats?

I want you to put it in words where you think current Vegeta is for this to be fair. Because unless you ignore feats we see in the anime and assume Vegeta scales to literally no one i.e Frieza, Cell or even Buu. Then this doesnt make sense.

All Star busters on panel. With universe busting being very context heavy. IIRC didnt Surfer tank Big Bang shit anyway in past comics? Not that I consider Surfer big bang level anymore than other Marvel characters with major outliers. I dont accept DBS outliers and hyperbole. Sorry.

I haven’t locked it yet because I wanted to see your justification but the fact is you can’t say why. We all know your disdain for DB and you heavy agenda against it.

I dont like DB doesnt matter though since I pit Vegeta against a character he clearly beats according to you right? So whats the disdain for DB matter here or play a role? There is 5 other matches to come and if this one is too weak for vegeta, then you should not complain when I increase the threat level.

Silrver Surfer consistently operates at planet to maybe lar planet busting.

Funny same for DB barely ever busting a star much less universe.

And if you really want you can push it to star busting with high ends.

Yes. star Busting is where I place both sides consistently.

Which with anime feats DB you have surprassed that by Buu Saga. So again I ask hoping to get an actual answer. Where do you place these characters?

Im hoping for actual non bias view of BD power levels, but again if majority keep leaning heavily to this being a mismatch, I have more powerful foes in mind for the next one.

#18 Edited By emperorthanos-
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@sirfizzwhizz: I may respond to the rest but Im not accusing you of an alt. I just meant dont ask me to debate new accounts when I asked about your views. I know that is not you alt I saw his posts.

Im not banning you, relax. I haven’t done anything as a mod yet and at most I will lock this. If I was drunk on power as you said I wouldnt have taken the time to discuss and ended this already.

#19sirfizzwhizz

Alright then. In no way I will make a Alt just to argue with others to back me up. Lowest of low battle forum practices.

If you really think this is so mismatch, then where do you EXACTLY put Vegeta at? As I said, this is match one of six. With others getting more hard since votes are skewing hard to Vegeta. After a few more days this match will close and the next one will be a bigger jump in power. There is no intention to bait, If I wanted that I used multiversal characters. I started with bare minimum. Thats how I try to work these things.

#20Rapiu

@sirfizzwhizz: I wouldn’t call myself a Marvel lover, especially not the current day Marvel which I won’t even give my money to. The last MCU movie I watched was Endgame and I haven’t read a current Marvel comic in a long time, nor will I be playing any Marvel games. You can call me a scorned lover of Marvel. 😂

I’m also not a big fan of Dragon Ball Super with the exception being that I love Beerus. Besides that I hate the likes of Jiren, Zamasu, and whatever that green haired guy from the manga with the robotic eye is called. I don’t remember his name. Original Dragon Ball and Z are the best and GT is better than Super despite its many flaws, but regardless I’m not going to say something crazy like SSJ4 being stronger than blue just because I like something more.

Marvel and DC just have insane power scaling, that’s all it is. Not many verses that people have actually heard of can compete against them so the best course of action is to use video games, movies, and cartoons. Leave the comic book versions alone unless we’re talking about in verse or Marvel vs DC because the comics get too ridiculous.

#21sirfizzwhizz

@emperorthanos-: I edited the harsher things out of my response, I was seeing red with the thought of accusations I felt hurled towards me.

#22 Edited By emperorthanos-
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Again relax I know he isn’t your alt. I’m not accusing you of that.

If you have Surfer at star level(Which even I dont but I can’t argue against Surfer because I plan on doing CaVs with him and risk people throwing my arguments back at me). I have Vegeta at universe busting and more. Even ignoring DBS, Anime Feats through Buu galaxy busting is more than enough for Vegeta to scale above here. Even if you consider that over time it involves destroying large stars and galactic cores. I dont view Marvel and DC comics the same as other verses. Verses like DB or even Invincible where there is really one writer with progressive threads means consistency isn’t something I take into account. Compared to Surfer whose power and threats vary so much that I just take the level he operates at in most cases which usually is planet busting when unamped.

But I’m not looking for a debate, I shouldn’t have said intentional bait. But you do clearly have a dislike the verse, we have known each other long enough for me to say that. Its not meant to be an insult by I do believe it makes you very biased against DB.

#23MasterBuster666

Hmm, depends on the location, if they start close by 50 meters, I see Vegeta folding him tbh.

No standard Iteration of Surfer stands a chance against Current Vegeta, he’ll even weaker versions like Majin Vegeta is enough.

#24TheWatcherKing
 Online

@sirfizzwhizz: tank the Big Bang? No he channeled the Big Crunch to kill two galactus level beings and was on the brink of death from this, it shouldn’t be hard to tell why this is a huge huge nonsensical outlier….

#25 Edited By XD_ist

Vegeta has no counter or resistance to Surfer’s hax and Surfer is massively faster. Surfer should be comparable in physicals with his scaling to characters like Thor

#26Alekos

I’d go with Vegeta

#27Eredin12

#28Gaoron

Which Vegeta? DBZ loses. DBS wrecks.

#29GrayWolf2

@gaoron: Says current so Super is my guess

#30 Edited By sirfizzwhizz

Current Canon version yes.

Thats damn insane and as good a outlier as universe busting shouts, time consuming chain reaction shouts, or the chain reaction universe busting of Beerus and Goku clashing.

#31 Edited By hatsonmelo

Complete stomp for Vegeta, DBZ high tiers are just on a different level than comic heralds

To put this into perspective, even his Base Saiyan Saga form of 18k was confirmed on multiple occasions to be capable of planet busting, so by the time he first gets Super Saiyan he’d literally be hundreds of times above it.

By contrast, WoG describes Surfer+Drax as small planet level and that’s backed up by how Surfer was stomped by one being of a quartet that explicitly had to combine their powers to planet bust and knocked himself out deflecting a meteor and again and waschoked by a guy who had the gravitational pull of a planet and had to amp himself to destroy a moon and literally killed himself doing so and went insane absorbing a solar flare and had to push himself to his limits to move a moon and exhausted himself repairing the Earth.

#32Supreme101

Vegeta

#33TheWatcherKing
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@sirfizzwhizz: none of what you listed is outlier for the DB side, unlike comics on average anime works in that there is obvious progression as stories have a beginning/middle/end(while popular comics go on endlessly so consistency is a bigger deal).

Silver surfer at his normal levels should be surviving anything even a trillionth as powerful as galactus, let alone channeling power that kills two galactus lvl beings. The difference in power between galactus and surfer is the difference between Kid Goku in the first chapter of DB to EOZ Goku.

#34sirfizzwhizz

@thewatcherking:

none of what you listed is outlier for the DB side, unlike comics on average anime works in that there is obvious progression as stories have a beginning/middle/end(while popular comics go on endlessly so consistency is a bigger deal).

You do realize you are preaching to the choir? This is my EXACT arguments of Invincible consistency and high ends/outliers vs Marvels.

Doesnt change the fact DBZ and DBS is FILLED with inconsistent feats. Like alot inconsistent things which is why DBS is looked at with flaws by its own fanbase. The writer still a old kook who cant keep consistency himself.

Things you damn well know and cause headaches to DB fans.

#35TheWatcherKing
 Online

Glad we have the same mindset, perhaps we’re looking at it from different angles.

This is my EXACT arguments of Invincible consistency and high ends/outliers vs Marvels.

This means you understand why Invincible high end feats are inherently less likely to be outlier than an equivalent marvel showing, as they have a greater comic history allowing for more opportunities to show feats on a lower or higher lvl. Same applies with anime vs comics, cause it’s a matter of getting to the next level rather than maintaining a status quo characters will get better feats to solidify their journey as intended by the writer.

While any time Silver Surfer gets a buff or a good showing he will inevitably have to return to how he always is, there’s no such thing for Vegeta.

Doesnt change the fact DBZ and DBS is FILLED with inconsistent feats.

Some of which are non canon, gags, or blatantly wrong. Not only is DB’s power being above universal actually intended for the series, important to several plotlines, and there are multiple feats supporting it narratively makes sense unlike that Big Crunch feat. If Vegeta gets stronger, keeps training for years, and then gets a universal feat where is the inconsistency? He wasn’t universal and then became such. Surfer doesn’t constantly train to explain growths in power, nor is he allowed the freedom to evolve endlessly as he will always be beneath a certain lvl in marvel.

Like alot inconsistent things which is why DBS is looked at with flaws by its own fanbase. The writer still a old kook who cant keep consistency himself.

there are flaws in a series that has been dead for multiple decades yes, as to be expected. That gives a measure of leeway and the showings don’t debunk where they actually lie by feats.

Things you damn well know and cause headaches to DB fans.

Umm ok

#36GrayWolf2

@thewatcherking: How often does Surfer channel the Big Crunch power? Does he utilize it to a lesser degree or was that a complete one time only thing?

#37takenstew22
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From what I know he only used it once and it was from stealing the energy of the Crunch itself, so not his own power really.

#38GrayWolf2

@takenstew22: Then it’s pretty worthless in vs debate. Too much happens with comic characters to rely on a one time only with power not their own

#39 Edited By sirfizzwhizz

@thewatcherking: we agree on everything but DBS meant to be universe busters, Cant agree there. But then my opinion is a minority on this site, where others like Spacebattles more level headed with DB power being galaxy at best.

#40rajjarsalt

The gargling of Dragon’s Ballz is quite heavy indeed!

#41 Edited By rajjarsalt

@sirfizzwhizz: Surfer performed his Big Bang feat in MCOC. This version should be 616 though, he remembers previous Contests which occurred in comics.

He also busts a yellow star

#43sirfizzwhizz

@rajjarsalt: wait so the game you showed is Canon to comics?

#44chris2kzombieki

Basically my thoughts.

This seems like a thread, and I already see it, for Fizz to be like “But you guys call out this verse I like inconsistencies so why not these verses?!? Hypocrites!”

When its a much different and more complicated thing than that.

Dragon Ball, is intended to be Universe level as of DBS. Some characters at least. If that wasn’t the intent, then the feat Goku performed against Beerus is what Dragon Ball characters currently are intended to be at.

Theres nothing much else. Comics have varied writers that don’t agree with where characters are power wise. Dragon Ball is written by one man who knows where he wants his characters to be. Simple as that.

#45sirfizzwhizz

True but A Death of the Author is a thing. For Example. The Luther Strode incident.

I love Justine Jordan and his series, but the dude was totally contradicting in his idea of feats and power levels. Showing consistently way above what Travis Moore and Jordan had on panel.

Same for Akira of DB fame. The dude is not consistent and liable. So in a sense you have a responsibility to look at the consistent feats and logical feats of DB rather what you think the Author wants. Otherwise one day Akira will just say randomly “DB characters are like only 100 tonners and can only bust moons” when we know they are star busters at minimum. I place them Galaxy level like Surfer myself. But then I may be rating Surfer to high as it seems people place Surfer star minimum and galaxy level consistently.

#46 Edited By rajjarsalt

Yes. Most Contests happened inside 616, though this one has a reach across the multiverse. Some characters are canon to 616, others are canon to MCU, some to alternate verses entirely. Case by case thing, but the game had its own comic limited series a couple years ago and some 616 characters showed up in there as well.

#47chris2kzombieki

I love Justine Jordan and his series, but the dude was totally contradicting in his idea of feats and power levels. Showing consistently way above what Travis Moore and Jordan had on panel.

Same for Akira of DB fame. The dude is not consistent and liable. So in a sense you have a responsibility to look at the consistent feats and logical feats of DB rather what you think the Author wants. Otherwise one day Akira will just say randomly “DB characters are like only 100 tonners and can only bust moons” when we know they are star busters at minimum. I place them Galaxy level like Surfer myself. But then I may be rating Surfer to high as it seems people place Surfer star minimum and galaxy level consistently.

Thats why verses explain things like Ki control, to let the reader know that sometimes the MC isn’t always all powerful.

But this is a no bars held fight all out, where you have to look at where characters are meant to be.

Does DB have a lot of inconsistencies? Yes, of course. No verse doesn’t have them. But also, this isn’t like Invincible. Where theres only one feat (No crossovers) where they perform it.

We know, since Saiyan Saga, high tiers at the time could bust planets. Buu, Broly, both have feats on a galactic scale. Thats not for no reason.

You can’t exactly do the same for comics.

#48Straight-Fire
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How is this fair? End of Z Vegeta would beat Surfer let alone current Vegeta.

#49nassergrant19